Date: 23 June 2005
Subject: Re: request for meeting
Hi Mohsin Jaffer at http://services4u.com.au
I wish you well with your development of critical parts of the self empowerment system.
It sounds (from just a whisper) very interesting and I look forward to our eventual meeting.
Meanwhile, perhaps we can use email to gather our reciprocal hatchlings and links.
Have you looked at http://humanifesto.org and my folder there, called yehoshanah?
A concise version of my vision is... as I type it for you on this morning...
To facilitate an interactive, responsive, person centred, web of alignments;
nesting co-operative associations, free with authenticity (rather than competition).
An operator referential POP, historical organizer, always on, RSS FOAF communicator,
a relational personal profile/resume relating every possible application of engagement.
To facilitate and offer this to budding and branching coop consumer groups.
To facilitate and offer this to small business sector for stake-holder relationships.
To facilitate the emerging exchange system serving complementary currencies.
This would be an evolving nesting web, balancing sustainability and affectivity.
Privacy and multiple loyalties are two of the most primary exchange apertures.
A range of real values and their metric indicators give explicit handles to choices.
This reputation web would assist its participants to evolve their common language.
A communication of our invested interests and a readiness to dis/en/gage action.
This system is an evolving open source, non profit, common resource technology.
Multi layered distributed computing serving confluential, con-sentient participation.
It seems you have ventured and are realizing an evolving system in your own sphere.
Is this abstract I have just given (a description of a barely lucid dream) at all helpful?
regards and good wishes
Yehoshanah (Jason Lasky)
Date: 2005 09 27
Hi Mohsin
Thank you for your open and exploring enthusiasm and energy.
It will take me some time to look over the material you have sent.
You have shown through your presentations, valuable currency.
Meanwhile, I re-affirm my deep interest for participating in
developmental and con-tributary "feedback cultures" within
"learning to share" mutual-common values and understandings
within semi-open, co-operative and intentional "social networks"
facilitated by evolutionary referral and "reputation currencies".
For me, I sense a living patchwork, weaving the immediate and local
with the abstract and possible, to be real with many layers of being.
This is a collaborative Art Co-authoring the present as the possible.
Combining my autonomic self with my relational cultural social being.
I'm glad to recognize this happening in wider culture in various ways.
I seek to ground my artistic currency in the local immediate more often.
Thus I question, how will these synergies move currency through me?
regards Yehoshanah
Date: 2005 09 28
Hi Mohsin
[The link you requested]
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/demurrage_surplus_reputation.htm
Your emails are full of valuable quality learning and inspiration - I am still reading them.
regards Yehoshanah
Date: 2005 10 01
With much respect to my elder brother Mohsin,
First of all, I am thankful to you for your valuable attention and discussion.
Second, I wish to acknowledge your actualization of the technical application.
I was imagining applications, I am so grateful you have begun actualizing them.
At what stage are you, in populating your contacts directory and currency?
Are you working together with others on these projects or are you alone?
I first noticed your reference through your involvement with cyclos software.
I came to the cyclos software project through http://chaordicinitiatives.org
Please see my email http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2005/kimci.htm
Are you assisting with the general project, in its open source development?
Are you involved with the chaordicinitiatives.org inspired by Dee Hock Visa?
I feel we have indirectly outlined a broader view of our common interests.
I am interested, in participating, attracting and assembling our commons.
While we have recently collaborated with a focus on contacts and currency,
my personal feelings are pulling me to inquire further on our common values.
Perhaps we could further plan or map out our common interests and values?
I request this now since I feel you have been a major bridge for me recently.
Are you interested in assembling model tools for democratic coop social webs?
Consuming, producing and trading valuables, allocating surplus, not a profit?
Re-investing a commons with voluntary gifting of tangible and non tangibles?
Participatory, cultural and sustainable open networks of personal community.
I'm not yet clear how to ground our interests and energies in the tangible.
I sense we have both had a long journey drawing our visions to realization.
I feel we seek a common language and I do appreciate your feedback methods.
Do we continue to approximate in technical specifics and a broader vision?
I do acknowledge your depth work developing valuable technical applications.
If we "sketch to flesh" our boldest aims, we can invite greater participation.
I'd very much like to meet and discuss assembling commons and participants.
with much respect
yehoshanah
Date: 02 Oct '05 22:42
Hi Mohsin
Thank you for introducing me to your version of cyclos software.
I resonate with your sentiments in the manual in the introduction
and the Self Esteem, Dignity, Health Check and synchronicity levels.
I look forward to seeing the interactions report evolving from a statistics chart into an activity map.
a more graphical form of contact and currency flow - an overview of ones living social network ties.
there are three obvious places to seek our contact lists; phone, email and all memberships.
It is an awkward position for a real person to enter a membership with a blank address book.
so i seek an identity commons service or a foaf protocol to feed any new membership profile.
in reverse, we could agree to centre/hub the profile and spoke the memberships and associations.
then we might be looking at xml or rss definition sheets for translation or protocol instructions.
from another angle, work with business to upgrade POS, membership and website integration.
with intention of fostering a profile market place for b2bbb, b2ppp/ppp2b and p2p interactions.
got to go....
regards yehoshanah
Date: 03 Oct '05 05:11
Hi Mohsin
Thank you for your reply and the confidence you share so far.
We do/will have personal operational differences to consider.
It is likely I will not be capable to work on the tech specifics.
Though I very much want to be part of a vision/greater picture...
I am confident that you are also a IP psycho-cultural visionary.
I prefer not to be a technical expert but more of a cultural synthesizer.
Here are some resource/references I mentioned:
http://www.identitycommons.net/
http://www.identitycommons.net/participants/
http://wiki.idcommons.net/moin.cgi/OpenSource
http://www.xdi.org/xri-and-xdi-explained.html
which I discovered via Living Directory - Friendly Favors
http://www.livingdirectory.org/FF
designed by (chaordic member) Sergio Lubs (see paper)
"emerging social reputation systems they benefit complementary currencies"
http://access.dreamteamtech.com/information/default.asp?NavPageID=37076#i_118377
Friend of a friend:
http://www.foaf-project.org/
http://rdfweb.org/
http://www.socialtext.net/foafnet/index.cgi
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/Europe/events/foaf-galway/papers
RSS - rich site summary / really simple syndication
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSS_%28file_format%29
http://www.webreference.com/authoring/languages/xml/rss/intro/
Longhorn, IE7 to Add RSS Tools
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1831249,00.asp
The Semantic Web is an extension of the current web
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web
http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/
http://www.consortiuminfo.org/bulletins/semanticweb.php
Turning the Web into an Operating System (the commercial aspiration)
The second annual Web 2.0 Conference takes place October 5-7, 2005
http://www.web2con.com/
My earlier writings on Buddy Trees, Fresh Currency and New Culture:
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/seven_degree_buddy_tree.htm
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/buddy_tree_news.htm
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/open_community_currency.htm
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/value_metric_currency.htm
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/foh_is_here.htm
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/evolutionary_reform.htm
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/new_age_procreative_culture.htm
http://www.humanifesto.org/yehoshanah/2004/to_bring_together.htm
regards Yehoshanah
Subject: New Year Wishes
Date: 04 Oct '05 10:50
Hi Mohsin
We are bridging this world and the next...
should we focus on one and not the other?
Sometimes on this and sometimes on that...
learning to turn from one unto the other.
This last week I have sent out 2 broadcast text messages.
A message about Sunrider and another about New Year.
Each message was sent to about 100 of my friends.
I had replies from about a third and followed up on some.
We are even more familiar with mass email forwarding.
But let's look at word of mouth and subtle messaging.
Let's look at our social networks to understand them.
I agree with the thought that proposes extending them.
We sometimes create a complex development a few steps away,
and lack the population of interacting participants with feedback.
How do we learn to bridge This world making Next, Here and Now?
Love and best wishes Mohsin and to everyone,
on this Jewish new year, an overlap of various cycles.
Yehoshanah
Subject: Commons - Augmented Social Network
Date: 06 Oct '05 06:13
Hi Mohsin
"Commons" is an old and formal term and is still becoming new for me as well.
More often I encounter the terms "in common", "shared" and "mutual" to parties.
Members of a Community, Party or Public are Commoners of certain shared rights;
The right to access or use mutually available resources, known as the Commons.
By "Commons" I mean shared resources, available, sustainable or renewable after use.
With "Common Ownership" I intend the dedicated property subject to mutual agreement.
I prefer mutual deliberation and agreement than "House of Commons" or "Common Law".
The term is moving from centralized use, "ivory tower" Property Law to popular usage.
Recently made popular by http://www.opensource.org/ and http://creativecommons.org/
Definitions of re-creative rights and freedoms are made easier to declare and share.
I re-commend (or nominate for common resource) wikipedia to investigate new terms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons
"Commons are a subset of public goods; specifically meaning a public good which is not infinite. Commons can therefore be land, rivers and, arguably,money. The Commons is most often a finite but replenishable resource, which requires responsible use in order to remain available. A subset of this is a commons which requires not only responsible use but also active contribution from its users, such as a school or church funded by local donations.
In order to ensure responsibility of the users, there must be a system of management. Such models include the Hobbesian Leviathan model, where there is a central authority that monitors the behaviour of the users and can sanction abusers. There are also many other models, some of which can require no maintenancefor instance, if it is known that the collective consists mostly of contingent cooperators, then once responsible behaviour has been established, it will most likely continue without management. Another model is reputation management."
Key terms we have mutually identified are money (as currency) and reputation management.
And IP, accessible - usable, extensible, not for profit, Earth chartered and creative commons.
Permit me to indulge in some very abstract musings (and forgive me?):
If a system relates to a relative exterior - perhaps multiple exteriors;
If a system relates to a relative interior - perhaps multiple interiors;
If these relations are in flux to define the interior and exterior sets;
Instruction sets flux learning to define and refer multiversal settings;
Then Auto referred learning sets refer to the auto referral learning set.
Since we intend extending our current social behaviour patterns toward values,
we require participant learning curves perceived as convenient and beneficial.
A currency interface needs to be convenient if to be used by a diverse group.
I have moments of inspiration and frustration when sharing these ideas.
I personally need to ground its reality in a coherent map and life style.
At the same time I love the challenge of dreaming up a new idyllic world.
How do you understand agreement, holding fixed or dependent operation?
And please explain co-opetitive - interdependent rather than dependent?
And your statement that every account holder issues its own currency?
I'm continually confronted by the probable pitfalls of information abuse.
It is likely people will seek a refuge in a persuasive stamp of approval.
It seems that we will do well to be active in participating in our values.
While inviting others to participate to a degree they see fit themselves.
By this I mean, we will not be able to offer a non working abstract model.
We can offer a model to be altered and adapted away from confined values.
So I predict a strong movement toward allegiance and away from personality.
Our resort for preparing a system with self healing is our own engagement.
Personal participation will provide positive regard to realize our values.
So too, the most relevant reputation currency will reflect personal input.
Thus consider integrating adaptive predictive computer aided decisions.
I see these adaptive maps as a development resource for interface [HCI].
A personal predictive map itself currency subtly reflecting a values map.
It's likely identity commons will be embedded in subtle predictive maps.
Looking at integration of social reputation values and interactive maps.
Sharing of a more subtle predictive interactive map assists in evolution.
Consider the possibility, inputing programming, settings and transactions.
Aided by intuitive adaptive embedded self healing relevant participation.
I notice I am drifting a distance away from our previously agreed terms...
But I'm interested to know how involved you are with the related subjects.
Thus Retail POS Rewards and Org. Memberships with value declaration maps;
Email, mobile address books and calendars can be aided by predictive input.
Reciprocal feedback between subscribed members assists the associative web.
It seems likely reputation currency will emerge from the current interfaces.
It seems likely privacy and security issues will be an ongoing concern too.
I think the answer is found in the choices of participants at every level.
In our case we intend to assist in formative development and empower people.
Providing a positive regard in a self healing reputation currency network.
Establishing a bridge across economic, organizational and personal values.
Thank you for your confidence, sincerely
yehoshanah
Subject: Choose Friends Wisely
Date: 07 Oct '05 02:22
Hi Mohsin
It appears we generally agree on or are, at least, ready and available to discuss on what we disagree...
I did look at the reports and thanked you with 50 thanx in return a few days ago. Did you or I receive any automated confirmation of the thanx transactions? I would be happy to meet to learn more with you.
We could re-define convenience in terms of an apparent efficiency, which is relevant to ones perspective, for maintaining or obtaining sort after benefits. With the example of health and healing, it would depend on how one chooses to value the alternative benefits of prevention and correction. Is correction more convenient than prevention? The point in question also relates to the convenience of maintaining assumptions versus readiness to obtain or learn new information, which again could be considered a value, preference or perspective.
I haven't actually used skype for over a year but I am keen to see it's viral evolution within the ebay - Paypal take-over, in the greater convergence and innovation culture taking place in a now robust market, profitable with broad and mobile bandwidths, accelerating in to a second hi-tech Boom. The hi-tech consumer Boom is occurring not long after a huge Bust, but in much less than a decade, where as usually, in other markets, counter corrections generally take much longer.
Sony PS3 / Xbox 360 - due out next year - will push to market hi-tech consumer - immersive environments for collaborative networked role play, arriving much earlier than was generally expected. Sony has now attempted to take control of the black market trading of the internal game items and role play favours.
There is a prolific online black market beyond decoders, MP3 and file sharing. Perhaps first lead by the illegal sex and gambling markets. How much of the legal market development follows in the wake of an innovative black market with burners and itunes store for example? Will alternative currencies become legal tender?
The dominant emerging price structure is to reward prepayment and increased consumer spend with bonus vouchers or credit while reducing the declared validity period for which a voucher or credit can be redeemed. The industries providing popular consumer communication, trading and gaming applications are bringing to market their own virtual (limited, conditional and temporary) currencies. Which are likely to converge with ebay like reputation systems, as consumers become more able or are eventually permitted and assisted to trade peer to peer, for virtual currency, promises or favours. Will transparent value declarations emerge and be accountable, reflected in the exchange rates of reputation histories?
Well, all these questions will continue to be answered with both a yes and a no, and many variations in between. Each of us answers according to ones values, preferences and perspectives. Answers depend on all the participation and feedback.
What if we could centre currency in the actual preferences and reputations of its participants? There would be no objective, non personal, closed or centralized currency. Only all the relative and collaborative pathways in which exchange have been and are currently preferenced by all the personal and semi-open socialized value declarations. In which case, the meaning of a unit of currency is dynamic and relative to all the value and preference declarations associated with it, by all it's concerned participants.
We would avoid mono-naming our currency of exchange, as a fixed static unit, since our declarations are fluent and our participation is in fluid motion. Our currency is by definition and literally current. Instead we would attempt to value it for ourselves as an instrumental extension of our dynamic contextual value declarations, and as an indication of our collaborative relative participation. A noun or pronoun could not abbreviate our currency, but perhaps a noun described by a verb might. Currency describes the current manifestation of all the prior, present and potential participation, understood as declarations and embodiments of our presumed, experiential and potential learning of value.
An ancient but very familiar proverb states quite simply to "choose friends wisely". I would interpret this to mean: be intentional, learn to be honest, describe your motivational values, as you participate, collaborate and exchange?
Subject: Fluent Reputation Currency
Date: 08 Oct '05 07:32 pm
Hi Mohsin
The familiar working model, we have been working on, is a mostly static (until it moves) community currency, that holds a group validated value, in the way a peer respected promise does, basically trusted by a community of members, all of which accept the entire list of every member, all the credit and debt balances, considering the entire community's reputation and referral network. While each exchange is negotiated on the basis of personal interest, and the question of exchange can influence ones reputation, it is still a single currency, a community trust model.
If we look closely, the single currency is actually the sum of all the trust, deriving from all the members reputations and promises. The community currency is not a person or tightly tied profile cluster currency but a wider field of consenting trusted peers in a patchwork of profiles that will vouch for each other, despite looser ties. It is an ongoing balancing of extremes, a loose peer network currency.
In the familiar working model, a community and the use of its single currency might continue to encourage their shared values which would be reflected in the trust they have to accept their single shared currency from any member, even if a member is at the minimum limits of community standards. The success of the currency, indicated by ongoing use, would be dependent on the collective moderation of reflected values, which the single currency represents.
It would be a great improvement on the giant and secretive, centralized authority issue, cannibalised by a greedy minority, mostly encouraging anonymity. We are by enlarge forced to use it in our society, so far. I speculate, that without secretive control and encouraged anonymity our federal currency would fail in an acceptable values test.
A community currency encourages a values test, which it implicitly offers and obliges every member of community, in order to establish and sustain a trusted value based reputation currency. Now let's consider the boundary between communities and currencies, as they are crossed by participants accepting, comparing and exchanging more than a single currency. By what means can these people compare all their currencies?
What is the community currency model for exchange rates between similar or very different currencies? A single community currency is really a looser network of smaller tighter clusters of trust between members. Can smaller clusters break away from a currency with their collective records? Or can a profile or profile cluster join another currency, another profile or cluster that does not belong to their single community currency?
I'm working on a profile centered model and proposing a more fluent reputation network. The idea is an always in flux and embedded relational reputation model. Each profile remains in flux due to the influence of a wider range of currently evolving and recently related reputations. A proximity field of strong and relevant ties and their value based negotiations, their offers and responses, their reputations formed in and by value based negotiations.
The flux is facilitated by ongoing adjustments to value and preference alignments, according to changing intimate and broader circumstances, always approximating towards ones choices, seeking complementary relationships or activity. When you deal with one profile you also deal with its embedded reputation profile relationships.
I'm pondering if the currency could be understood as a proximity field of relevant offers and responses, potential exchanges, and compared with all relevant prior reputation exchange records. I'm wondering if this field of currency can be fiat, issued on demand, by an act of collective influence on the broader field of reputations. The currency issue invites feedback in a form of moderation, an agreement discovered by specific and general feedback.
A fiat currency for current negotiation, would extend the record of prior collaborative choice (prior congressional deliberations). A fiat currency of implied trust in the strength of potential and prior ties. The fresh currency is the proposed field of reputation changes, which can only progress in relation to historically backed reputation records and occur in the receptive field of potential preference feedback.
A negotiation with a profile centered model would involve a complex relevancy query, seeking many relevant indicators and with the responses of the embedded profiles. I don't think this is similar to a profile assessment, according to a metric indicator like quantity of debt or credit, together with a high, medium or low community profile rating. Rather with a profile centered model, a rating would have to be based in the complex field of relevance issues and the result would suggest, "accept offer" or "don't accept".
The decision making interface for a profile centered model, would need extensive ongoing feedback to reflect a profiles true intentions. This is where the development of predictive preference matching would acquire so much importance. As I said in my previous email, the profile would be extensively developed in this regard and would highly value other profiles that assist it with improving its preference matching. Thus, assisted interior profile development becomes comparably as valuable as the exterior profile development. The participation that leads to the embodiment of value declarations becomes the understood value matching. Authentic profiling becomes valuable currency.
I also see the complexity problem; how do we develop a profile based currency and how do these profiles interact with each other in such a demanding field of embedded dependencies? I feel it is important to persist with these ideas because we will face an even bigger problem if we don't. If we get stuck in currency limitations that might prevent profiles or clusters from branching in and away from single currency and reduce cross currency and cross community communication.